The Unplanned Interview, Part 1.

November 8, 2017 Leave a comment

Disclaimer:  In this interview the colloquial speech of both interviewees was retained to give an authentic voice to some of the important people who reside in Southern Oregon.  Both interviewees agreed with the format and gave me permission to use the interview as recorded.  The names  referred to in the interview concern only those individuals mentioned and not by coincidence any others.  No attempt has been made to correct the grammar or to remove offensive material.  The main purpose was to gain a better understanding of two of Southern Oregon’s most prominent pioneers and to convey their points of view.  In no way do their points of view coincide with those of the interviewer.  This interview came about by accident and the curiosity of the interviewer.  The reader who proceeds does so after being warned of the nature of the interview–RMW

I had given over one hundred interviews, but none of my experience could have prepared me for what I was to encounter that day.  Life has a way of surprising us when we least expect it.

During the day in question I  brought my blue satchel, containing tape recorder, extra batteries, note pad, pen, and camera.  I always had miniature bottles of water with me and some precautionary antacids.  This was standard procedure for any of my proposed trips.

I couldn’t have asked for a nicer day;  temperature in the upper 70s, wisps of white clouds floating gently across a blue sky.  Mt. McLaughlin, Southern Oregon’s famous triangular peak that topped 9000 ft. seemed to exert a gravitational force, pulling my car further and further to the east of Hwy 62.  I seemed to have lost control as my brown 2004 Toyota Corolla moved obediently up the narrow highway towards the distant peak.  I thought of the Native Americans that had settled here long ago and of the Homestead Act that brought the encroaching settlers into their private land.

Suddenly, my car gave me a jolt as the road had quietly become a gravel road, loaded with stones.  It seemed that one of those stones was quite attracted to one of my tires–hence the jolt.  I decided to continue on this road, because I had never driven on it and it seemed intriguing.  As it became more pitted, I was glad to see a cross road which headed north towards a valley.  I wasted no time in turning onto what appeared to be a smooth dirt road.  But after the road made a few bends, some large granitic boulders sparkling with mica blocked any further travel.  I decided to park the car on an outcropping, and grabbed my blue satchel, stuck a small water bottle in my pocket, locked the car and began to walk along the road.

It seemed that someone had placed the boulders to prevent cars from continuing, because after I had been on the road for some minutes, it became smooth again and angled down towards the valley.  And from the distance I could make out the shape of what appeared to be some kind of dwelling.  When I drew closer, I saw the clear outline of a brown wooden home with shake roof and magnificent ponderosa pine towering above some scrub oak.  I could hear the gentle sound of water and felt myself absorbed by the beautiful landscape surrounding me.  I began to hear a rustling in the bushes and two figures looked out at me.  One was a tall, slender man with hair that had turned silver, while the other was a more rotund feminine figure also with graying hair.  Both of them looked me over with piercing and distrustful eyes.

–We see you was walking to our place so we come to look at ya.  We knows you was curious enough to hop over our obstacles, and when you kept a commin, we was plum interested in who you was”, said the tall man in a raspy voice.

–We don’t get many visitors, generally”, added the older woman.

–Which brings me to this:  What is your name and why are you here?”, asked the probing man.

–My name is Robert Weiss and I wanted to interview some of the prominent historical figures in Southern Oregon.  That’s why I brought my tape recorder, a notepad and a camera.

–My, don’t he talk English good”, said the older woman.

–Anyways,  ya kin just put that camera back.  We don’t allow no pictures.  Ya say you do interviews.  What does that mean?

–It means that I ask you questions regarding the things that have been important in your lives and how you might fit into the history of Southern Oregon.  And might I ask you your names?

–The name’s Eagle.  Eagle Point, the man drawled out.

–Matildy, I’m sure, said the round lady sticking out a pudgy hand for me to shake.

Note:  Eagle and Matildy Point agreed to let me record our conversation and below is what followed.

RW: Mr. Point, are you a Native American?

EP:  (slowly) No.

MP:  They is always asking him that.  This how it come about.  When Eagle was just a toddler, Josiah and Malvurney, his pa and ma, tried to keep some of their vittles away from him.  But it waren’t no good.  No matter how much they they tried, there was Eagle with some food in his mouth and smiling to beat the band.  Then they said that this kid had eyes like an Eagle and so it stuck.

Note:   At this time I was invited into the spacious home of the Points.  What we talked about will be the subject of Part 2.

 

 

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A Native American Voice: George Fence Speaks, Part 2.

March 23, 2013 Leave a comment

“You will find that if people want to ask a question, that waiting is a very important part of that asking.  What we are taught from an early age is that if we remain silent and observe, that sooner or later we will have this demonstrated to us.  So, there is a cautionary aspect to learning;  not to ask questions about specifics before we achieve the capacity to really understand and to practice what we have learned…

The importance of your relationship to place is the foundation upon which the individual cultures represented by the 400+ different tribes exist.  Native communities are represented by limited geographical regions and areas, although, they might extend to other areas for tribes that are more nomadic in nature.  However, even within the tribes that have migratory histories, there is still an incredible relevance to site, to feature and to landscape.  Relationships to place embody, virtually, volumes of books of learning.  And interestingly, the more you know and compare what you know against a symbol, the greater the amount of explanation of a symbol that comes to the individual.  Local examples are the Rogue River, salmon, Pilot Rock, Table Rocks, or Mt. Pitt, otherwise known as Mt. McLaughlin.  These physical places embody a tremendous amount of historical knowledge, of everything from mathematics to medicine to social discourse, to relationship and social involvement.  It takes a lifetime to learn the many volumes of information that are packed into these symbols…

The whole egalitarian perspective on economics not only assisted in the distribution of wealth or commodities, but it also played an important and figurative role in the social structure of our communities.  Those who were best possessed with the talents and capacities to accumulate were provided with the greatest opportunity to aid and assist and to provide service to others.  And thus they acquired the mantle of leadership and responsibility and were seen as providers and protectors for those around them.  So that merit was bestowed based on the actual process of support and assistance.  This egalitarian perspective on economies valued each and every contribution, and recognized that each was important in its own specific way, that without them, there would be a lack of balance in the communities.  So, rather than bestowing specific or greater honor to the person who brought back salmon than the person who brought back obsidian, the whole point was a sort of social or cultural leveling belief that all life forms were important to the balance and the harmony of the dance that this world engages in.  We are constantly reinforcing the idea and attitude that no matter how a person or other life form is represented, it has value and importance, and that even the most lowly can be counted upon to make the greatest contributions.

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A Native American Voice: George Fence Speaks, Part 1.

March 13, 2013 6 Comments

Several years ago, I  had the opportunity of talking with Native American activist George Fence.  George was a Cherokee who had come to Southern Oregon where he was adopted by the Takelma Tribe.  Education was the topic and George was eager to express his views as a Native American.

GF:  The connotations of education are broad, but in today’s world it means several things.  There is a kind of duality of learning that still occurs amongst many Native American people.  Historically, there are the oral traditions, the histories, the legends and the identification with sites.  Scenic overlooks, rivers and prominent landscape features were elements of this traditional education.  When Indian education was altered through the assimilation policies, education for Indians took on a dual perspective.  When the Indian students had achieved or essentially matriculated out of the institutions and returned to their tribe, they were still held to an older standard.  In many cases, the elders within the tribe saw that rather than increasing the students knowledge, they had somehow diminished it. Their native language was imperfect.  Their skills in the hunt or the chase or even identifying plants and animals, had been completely neglected.  So, the elders saw that in many respects the Indian students were no longer of use to their tribes.  So, they made certain recommendations and suggested that the European descendants, who sometimes were the people teaching at these colleges, send their children to live among the Indians and that they would provide them with an education.  Perhaps, they believed that an amalgamation could occur between the children of the Europeans and the children of the Indians if both were educated in each other’s camps.  I guess, having said that story, there was a time when native people thought thought the kinds of education the children were learning was pushing out the knowledge they thought to be the most important.  And that it was being replaced by an artificial view of the world that didn’t apply, at least, within their own paradigm.  Then there was a point in time when there were more products of the western education system among the Indians than those that carried on the traditional ways.  This happened after about three hundred years of war, coupled with the discriminate policy of isolating and separating the leaders from the followers, amongst the native communities.  Some of the policies were well-meaning.  The Indian Reorganization Act is one such policy that occurred in the thirties, right after the onset of the Roosevelt years.  The result was a real shift in modeling, and developing a tribal hierarchy that essentially mirrored the ruling class.  It transferred the authority from the old men and women of the tribe to a more, as seen from the outside, progressive or liberal form of leadership.  Today, of course, we would have to say that what survives of traditional culture has been fractionalized.  There are fewer and fewer carriers of the culture that have the tools or possess the knowledge and accompanying wisdom to transfer this information.  The stability within the social group has been altered to a large degree, whereas in times past, the elders and others could identify young people within the community who excelled at certain skills and who could be trained from early childhood.  Today, without the backdrop or the patterning of these wisdom keepers, it is difficult for many young native people to know which of these multitude of talents they particularly possess. I would say that there is a tremendous amount of traditional education still available for native people, but that it is one of the most difficult things to access.

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